Life prolonging cancer drugs to be banned because they cost too much.(Socialized Healthcare)

Thousands of patients with terminal cancer were dealt a blow last night after a decision was made to deny them life prolonging drugs.

The Government’s rationing body said two drugs for advanced breast cancer and a rare form of stomach cancer were too expensive for the NHS.

The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence is expected to confirm guidance in the next few weeks that will effectively ban their use.

The move comes despite a pledge by Nice to be more flexible in giving life-extending drugs to terminally-ill cancer patients after a public outcry last year over ‘death sentence’ decisions. L
eading campaigners last night said Nice had failed the ‘acid test’ of whether it really intended to give new priority to people with just a few months to live.
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After reading that, do you still want the government to decide what treatment you get? About 10 years ago my insurance paid out over 100 thousand dollars to keep me alive and so you know how I feel about socialized healthcare! I don’t want the government to have any say over myself and my family doctor!

LINKS:

(1) UPDATE 06 Mar – No gov’t health insurance

(2) An interview with John Goodman on the future of health care …Europe socialist governments provide “free” universal health care for everyone.

(3) GoodTimePolitics Is a Coward

(4) Let them eat pork, part 9,999: Senate at work

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51 comments on “Life prolonging cancer drugs to be banned because they cost too much.(Socialized Healthcare)

  1. LOL I see that djcnor is coming after GTP on her blog.

    Yes, no matter how we fix it, health care will be rationed, one way or another. In the UK, it appears that expensive therapies are simply outlawed. “Cancer? Hurry up and die, then.”

  2. Here’s an excellent article — longish, but worth your time. In a way, the Obama’s economic policies are perfect. You just have to look at them from the right point of view.

    Note that a number of proposals will affect the willingness of pharmaceutical firms to invest in research and development.

  3. I had a hard time finding the right point of view. By The Way helchick is giving it back to djcnor over on djcnor’s about me page! 🙂

    All I know is 10 years ago if the government would had to spend 100 thousand dollars to keep me alive, they would have said die boy die you’re not worth it!

  4. What should be done is all the people on welfare and or welfare healthcare be made to work for their welfare checks. There is paper along side the roads that they could pick up, sweeping the side walks and many other jobs that many of them could do. The ones that are to old or disable would not have to work. But its enough of giving a welfare check to people just because they have a baby or that their parents was on welfare and thats what they’re use to.

  5. I’m not sure there’s enough litter to go around. The Obama’s idea for a youth service corps depends heavily on litter management.

  6. What is the matter with djcnor? Mad that she can’t be heard on someone elses blog? She’s acting a bit ridiculous. I subscribed to her blog to see what she had to say, but unsubscribed this morning. If everyone made their own blog just to talk bad about someone else, there would be no useful conversation anywhere!

  7. Thanks, LukeMcGook for giving readers of this blog the means to access the counterargument by visiting my blog.

  8. Actually, I haven’t heard much about it lately. Maybe it’s been moved to Hope and Change, Act II. In any case, the proposal resembles a Soviet or national socialist youth program more than it does the Fruit of Islam.

  9. Did you get that djcnor was a hippie veitnam protester and that she hates President Bush and so she is in the UK and now would come back here cause Obama is president? Another John Kerry we have there! I have no time for such!
    I guess djcnor is alittle confused as who posted the URL to her blog! But thanks anyways Luke! 🙂

    By the way if you use “djcnor” your comment will go to moderation…sorry about that!

  10. I find it odd that someone would leave a country because of one person. There’s how many billion people here? If you love your country you stay, stick it out, and try to help fix the wrong things. I joked about leaving when Obama won, but I’d never actually do it. I love my country too much. I think she just needed someone to blame for her hatred of what America has become.

  11. Funny how you removed LukeMcGook’s post in which he referred to my blog. I would never had known of it had I not check why folks were coming to my blog from here at this point. Well, too late, I did see it and know it was there. You do too, as does LukeMcGook.

  12. And you can leave the US and still vote, by the way. Not to mention that I did stay, more or less, for 54 years. At 54, you begin to think about 4-week vacations and healthcare that’s not dependent on a job because age discrimination begins to kick in. Besides, why not explore different cultures if you have the right qualifications to be able to?

  13. [djcnor: Funny how you removed LukeMcGook’s post in which he referred to my blog.]

    Now you’re accusing people of doing things they haven’t done! You need to see a brain doctor! Don’t go for help on Cancer becuase those medicines are being banned by the UK government that you support so much. They say just lay there and die!

    [djcnor: why not explore different cultures if you have the right qualifications to be able to?]

    What qualifications does a person need to explore different cultures may I ask?

  14. I don’t sit on the moderation page every minute djcnor so did not know you had corrected anything. I don’t need help in location links on my blog, but maybe if you take a second and read the blog about the UK governmnet banning the medicines for cancer patient because it cost to much which in effect will just allow those patent lay there and die. You then will see where I had linked to your blog at the bottom of the blog. Now tell me what you think about the ban on cancer patient medicines in the UK?

  15. Apparently, you did need help, since I quote you as saying:

    “I guess djcnor is alittle confused as who posted the URL to her blog! But thanks anyways Luke! ”

    since Luke’s post did indeed include a link to my blog, so I was not in the least confused.

    To have the option of exploring different cultues on a long term basis, you need to be able to pass the points test for “highly skilled immigrant” stasis.

    I had already seen the story on the cancer drug via the UK news resources I generally watch and read. By the way, the BBC coverage also included the rationale for such decisions, which I included in my reply to Luke’s ping-back on my blog.

    As for your putting a link to my blog at the end of the post, thanks to you, too, as well as Luke.

    Of course, none of this actually outweighs the greater ability of universal healthcare to prevent preventable deaths, which by the way, account for 23% of all deaths in men and 32% of all deaths in women (link in my blog).

  16. If you ever have cancer (lord pray not) you would not think that (banning cancer medicines ) none of this actually outweighs the greater ability of universal healthcare. I have held the hands of friends while they died a painful death and I don’t think the government has any right to tell them what treatment the government can or can not afford them to have. Thats why the private insurance is the best system. Have alittle mercy on dying people, our turn is coming!

    [djcnor: To have the option of exploring different cultues on a long term basis, you need to be able to pass the points test for “highly skilled immigrant” stasis.]

    I will have to take your word on the “highly skilled immigrant” what ever that has to do with different cultues or is that a cultues of its own? 🙂

  17. First, what is the realtion of a highly skilled imigrant in regards to healthcare? I’m a bit confused.
    Next, we were discussing the pos and neg of stem cell research here at work. One of my co-workers brought up a good point(just one opinion). If we cure human kind of all diseases and increase the age we live to, we will be over populated by huge numbers. Less people dieing, more people being born, now more homes need to be built, more forrests cut down, with increased people, crime can go on the rise, blah blah blah. It’s kind of like a natural population control. Kind of a crappy way to see it, no one wants to see their loved ones die, including the countless children we lose every year. I know I’m going to get dinged for saying it but, there it is.

  18. GoodTimePolitics,

    If I ever have terminal cancer, and by denying me a few extra months, that money can be used to save lives that would otherwise be lost, I’m fine with it. And that is the decision that was made, that is made by insurance companies as well.

    Otherwise, I would still stay in the UK. For one thing, serious cancer would probably mean that I would not be able to continue in my job and would lose my healthcare if I were in the US. For another thing, there is no insurance deal that would not leave me with a large bill to pay of things uncovered, not to mention the chance of reaching the limit of policy-covered care. The lack of economic jeopardy for me or my family here would vastly outweigh these things for me.

    Check out immigration to different countries to find out how it is done and the advantages of “highly skilled migrant” status. Soon there will be a thing called a “blue card” for non-EU citizens which will give the bearer the right to work and live in any EU country. Having the requirements for such means that you can decide to go live somewhere else for a while without having a sponsoring employer, because they are so sure you will have little difficulty finding employment. Being able to fulfill the requirements of many different countrys’ HSM programs means you have the option of living and working in any of many different cultures for long periods of time.

  19. In other words the land, water and air is being used up by the people and the Earth is only so big! Good point!

  20. Helochick, GTP asked about what qualifications you need to be able to explore many different cultures. You need enough for countries to say, yes, come and work here for years if you like.

    Also, regarding stem cell research, there’s also the possibility of improving life quality (for diabetics and Parkinson’s sufferers and cystic fibrosis) as well as quantity.

    One way or another, Buckminster Fuller was right. The earth is like an egg, with a limited maintenance for the inhabitant built in, but the the inhabitant eventually has to live on its income rather than that built in source. For the earth, that income in the energy coming from the sun.

  21. [djcnor: You need enough for countries to say, yes, come and work here for years if you like.]

    So are you saying open our borders to anyone and everyone terrorist incuded? I still don’t understand why immigrantion has anything to do with learning about other cultures, they can come visit with a visa but they need to go home after it runs out. The mexicans can get a green card to work here, but no one needs to be let into this Country illegally!

    Plus the illegals in this country is part the reason our healthcare is so high…we can not and should not keep giving free healthcare to people in this Country illegally! Do you agree?

  22. GoodTimePolitcs,

    Actually, I would open all borders because I think it would solve a lot of the world’s problems, and because I do not think being born on one side of a line rather than another should limit a person’s life. We long since decided that that should not be true when the line was a railroad track through a town. Why is a country’s border so different?

    That being said. Those qualifications for highly skilled immigrant status are exactly how nations makes sure that the only people who can come live in their country without being very closely examined are folks who will bring in much needed skills.

  23. And I don’t think you can truly gain an understanding of a culture without living and working in it for some time. A vacation just doesn’t give you the full information.

  24. Dang it. And no, I don’t agree that illegal immigrants is why the cost of healthcare in the US has risen so high. It may be a small factor, but a very small factor.

    Furthermore, allowing anyone in our culture to go untreated for a health problem puts us al in jeopardy. Ever hear of typhoid Mary? Do you really want the guy washing the dishes or peeling the potatoes in the restaurant you eat in to go untreated because he can’t afford it?

  25. In regards to stew cell, I’m sure that people would be more than willing to donate cord blood to aid the stem cell research so that embryos don’t have to be used. If they(stem cell companies) threw out the statement that statement to the public, I’m sure they would have an overwelming response.
    Diabeties is a controllable disease. My brother has had it since he was 6, he’s now 42, and my in-laws got it due to their lifestyle. As long as the person takes care of themselves, eats right, excercises regularly, they can live a long life. Certain issues will still be there, eye problems, circulation to your feet, those sorts of things. They also have the insulin pump now, which my brother has been using for the last couple years. Stem cell research didn’t help invent that!

  26. Yes, but wouldn’t they love not to have to worry about all that, to be able to eat whatever they liked, to not have to test, and so on?

    Cord blood? Most blood cells, aside from white cells do not have nuclei, and thus only have mitochondrial DNA. Are you sure they use cord blood for stem cell research. I would think it would be the cells of the cord itself or the placenta that would be more useful.

    Biochemists and other medical scientists have a huge number of “tools” these days, all of which they use in concert.

    Here in the UK in talking about the difference that Obama’s change in the ruling made, they described how scientists had to have “kosher kitchen” laboratories, two sets of all their “tools” because they were not allowed to use the “tools” or materials bought with government grant money to do any research using non-approved lines funded otherwise. Can you imagine how that complicated operations in a lab?

  27. djcnor: Actually, I would open all borders because I think it would solve a lot of the world’s problems,

    So tell me djcnor, how you going to keep out terrorist with wide open borders and also how are you going be sure ofqualifications for highly skilled immigrant status? You’re saying one thing and then another…

    djcnor: And I don’t think you can truly gain an understanding of a culture without living and working in it for some time.

    I don’t think I want to live under muslim laws or as some country eat eggs that are buried in the ground until rotten before eating them. I can learn enough without living it! Therefore we don’t want to be like Europe!

    djcnor: allowing anyone in our culture to go untreated for a health problem puts us al in jeopardy.

    Again you say two different things! Doing without treatment for a cancer patent seem to be ok with you, and then you say not getting treated puts us all in jeopardy! Double talking as hard as you can! Can not have things both ways.

    And now I don’t know what health insurance most people have, but there are different and some are better than others, my insurance can not turn me down or cancel my policy! But it looks like the UK government can cancel treatments on people, in other words tell you what the doctor can or can not do! We do know they can ban medicines don’t we?

  28. I see djcnor, you want wide open borders, allowing terrorist or anyone into our country, at the same time you want only highly skilled immigrants to come in to work. You want socialist healthcare like UK has where the government can make your decisions for you when it comes to treatment and or what doctor to use. A government that would ration out healthcare as it see fit! I would bet you would want pot made legal also! Right?

    Since you’re so happy with the UK government healthcare and their living styles, why don’t you just stay where you’re at?

  29. I said that the illegals in this Country was part of the reason our healthcare cost is so high….and now I read:

    USA Today reports that studies by two conservative think tanks show illegal aliens could take 300,000 new construction jobs or 15 percent of the two million jobs to be created by U.S. taxpayer dollars.
    Read

    With the millions of illegals in this Country we are losing alot of jobs to them and they then send their wages to Mexico or where ever they’re from and live off the American government and our tax money! Most have kids and so can get food stamps and help with the kids.
    I say keep them out and make them come ii legal!

  30. “Do you really want the guy washing the dishes or peeling the potatoes in the restaurant you eat in to go untreated because he can’t afford it?”

    This already happens, because people can’t afford to miss work, not because they can’t afford healthcare. People go to work with the flu, colds, and do you know how many diseases are contagious before you get symptoms? Go to a day care and get a list! I get outbreak warnings all the time at my daughter’s daycare, but that’s for the same reason, they are military kids, whose parents HAVE to go to work. Been there done that!

    “Furthermore, allowing anyone in our culture to go untreated for a health problem puts us al in jeopardy. Ever hear of typhoid Mary?”
    Again I say, do you have any idea how many sicknesses, diseases, etc that are only contagious in the gestational period? Once you break out in a rash, or get a fever, you are no longer contagious. Other than contagious or infectious diseases, what could possibly put us in jeopardy?

    Did you honestly say you’d open all borders? You’d take jobs away from hard working Americans, because immigrants are willing to work at a fraction of what Americans work for? WOW! You can keep your UK attitude. We are the way we are because of Americans(mostly), not Mexicans, Asians, Indians, or whomever decides to squat here, make a living and send the money home to their country. They come here, get benefits that no American gets just for being American, free college, free room and board, free gas cards, whatever else they get just for being immigrants. People who didn’t grow-up here, they have no ties here, they just decided to come here and take the handouts. These are things that EVERY immigrant is entitled too(different in each state)! Name one bennefit (in relation to college) that every single American is entitled to, except the oppourtunity to attend! I for one am tired of the free ride these jerks get, just to go back to their country after they graduate college and earned a degree.
    Do you realize the bennies they get already!?

    http://www.nilc.org/ce/ceindex.htm#calbens

    Borders are there for a reason. You take those away, and the drug traffic will go through the roof! DROP THE BORDERS!! LEGALIZE CRACK! WOO HOO! Do you think before you type?

  31. Whee, let’s ride! In order, GoodTime Politics,

    I’m not worried about terrorists. Been there, done that. I was 30 blocks away when 9/11 happened and spent the day walking north, staying out of the shadows of tall buildings, and wondering whether the folks I’d worked with at the Borders in the bottom of one of the towers were all safe, wondering whether I’d make it through the day.

    In my opinion, your safety always depends on the good will of your neighbors. The best way to get rid of an enemy is to make him your friend. The US needs to take the will of the rest of the world into account because the US’s policies don’t just affect Americans.

    As for how you manage the highly skilled migrant programs, the UK does it, Australia does it, Sweden does it, just to name some of the countries I’ve checked. It’s not that hard to verify degrees and work histories and achievements.

    Me, Id avoid all that by opening borders, but that’s how its done.

    I think it would be interesting to live under sharia law. By the way, it varies a lot from Islamic country to country and is not very different from Western law in some places. I’ve talked to Western women who had the experience and they say it is freeing in some ways as well as restricting. As for the eggs, trying the local eats once is all that’s required, if that. Things like haggis (Scotland) and pickled potato chips (England) are such minor elements of the real character of a nation. And no, you can’t learn enough without trying living there.

    No, I’m not saying two different things regarding healthcare. In fact, the two positions are tied. I have no right to a certain life extending type of care at the expense of the lives of others. My getting that treatment affects them negatively, but the kitchen worker’s treatment affects others postively. In each case, the more positve choice should be made, in my opinion.

    Actually, no, the UK doesn’t ban medicines. In fact, separate jurisdictions sometimes make different decisions based on how the heathcare needs in different districts vary. I say again, do you really not think insurance companies make those same decisions in the US?

    Next post:

    I already covered how HSM programs work and how I would do it differently if it were my choice.

    I would like to stay, but I also have family (including an aging father) and property in the US (that amazingly has lost not a cent in value, yay, me) and there is no absolute certainty that my 5-year HSM will be extended another 5 years in the present economic climate and with me nearing retirement age. I understand why they might make that choice and know that such judgements are often reciprocal. In other words, my permission to stay might depend on how liberal the US is being with Brits who want to stay there.

    Next post:

    This post about illegals is all stereotypes and ignorance. I have someone in-house who knows the application process for welfare and food stamps and section 8 etc. It requires ID and other papers that no illegal would have. And you cannot work and get it. They spend their money in the local community, as places that have enacted policies to exclude illegals have learned.

  32. djcnor: Actually, no, the UK doesn’t ban medicines.

    The Government’s rationing body said two drugs for advanced breast cancer and a rare form of stomach cancer were too expensive for the NHS.

    The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence is expected to confirm guidance in the next few weeks that will effectively ban their use.

    djcnor: I have no right to a certain life extending type of care at the expense of the lives of others.

    Thats right, no one should have to pay your healthcare for you! Which the government healthcare in UK is paid for by taxes from people other than yourself! See we don’t think others should pay our way and thats why I have private health insurance!

    djcnor: I think it would be interesting to live under sharia law.

    SICK!

  33. Whoa! I have to say that djcnor represents a quantum leap for this blog, in terms of concentrated misinformation and foggy thought. Wrong on National Health, wrong on stem cells, wrong on life issues generally, wrong on immigration, wrong on multi-culturalism, wrong on … what’s left? Buckminster Fuller was a boob.

  34. Never mind that as a Ph.D. in biochemistry, I know more about stem cell research than anyone else here. I also have a history of having been right on things. There;s a reason why certain viewpoints are called progressive. In time, fringe left ideas always become mainstream. It’s happened time and again within my 58 years. Sorry you’ll be out of step. And Buckminster Fuller was a visionary.

  35. Well, if it’s inevitable that your brand of nannyism and cultural dissolution wins the day, how about you stop taking up so much space on someone else’s blog. Seriously, I’m urging you to get lost. Your posts are way, way too long and organized about as well as Bucky would have organized them.

  36. Well, it’s just theater. She’s enlightened, she’s tolerant, she’s a citizen of the world, she’s open-minded, she’s nuanced, and history is on her side! She deigns to go among the unwashed and correct their barbarisms. And if you call her on her long-windedness, it’s: “Back off, man. I’m a scientist.”

  37. I’ve been trying to avoid debating her. Unless she can trim her posts down and keep to a point or two, she’s clogging up the blog and ought to look elsewhere for traffic.

  38. When people are throwing multiple posts out asking me questions, I reply with however many words are required, generally less than the comments I’m replying to.
    I thank LukeMcGook for “She’s enlightened, she’s tolerant, she’s a citizen of the world, she’s open-minded, she’s nuanced, and history is on her side!” I do try to be all those things, and history is on my side.

    I look forward to hearing what Dr. Brewster Higley, whoever he may be, has to say.

  39. Thanks helochick, people don’t like his big spending of their tax money.

    More than half of all respondents – or 60 percent – gave Obama an “F.”

    Only 16 percent said the president has earned an “A,” while 6.4 percent gave him a “B,” 5 percent answered a “C” and 12 percent said he has earned a “D.”

    A reminder this was a MSNBC Poll!!

  40. The people of America is beginning to see all those lies that Obama has been telling them from the start of the campaign for president. His rating being the same as President Bush was at the same time period of alittle over a month tells me that Obama is now falling faster than what Bush did. if Obama keeps up his big spending, going toward socialist the people will turn against him cause most Americans do not want socialist…That MSNBC Liberal poll tells the story!

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