An interview with John Goodman on the future of health care …Europe socialist governments provide “free” universal health care for everyone.

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It’s hard to find anyone who likes America’s health care system, including John Goodman, president and founder of the National Center for Policy Analysis. But you’ll never find Goodman saying that health care is better in places like Europe, where socialist governments provide “free” universal health care for everyone.
Q: Many people – mostly people who think health care should be provided free to everybody by the government – point to Europe as a model. Should they?

A: The people who praise European health care say that the average country in Europe spends half as much as we do and they have very similar health outcomes. What they don’t tell us is that the typical European country is disguising costs, shifting costs, to hide what it really spends. And if we look over the last 40 years at the average spending per person in real terms, the growth rate in the United States is right at the European average.

Q: How does what Europeans get for their money compare with what Americans get for their money?

A: Well, life expectancy looks as good or better in Europe than it does in the United States. But life expectancy is primarily determined by genes and how people live their lives, not by doctors and hospitals. If you look at things that doctors can do something about, like cancer, and you ask, “What is the five-year survival rate for major forms of cancer?,” we are the best in the whole world.

To find out what he thinks America’s health care system should look like – and why Europe’s government health systems are the last things we should copy…..Click Here

The S&P 500 has dropped 18 percent this year following a 38 percent decline in 2008 that was the steepest annual retreat since 1937.

Health-care stocks in the S&P 500 fell 11 percent, the most among 10 industries. Humana, an insurer, lost 42 percent to $23.67, while rivals UnitedHealth Group Inc. and Coventry Health Care Inc. dropped more than 26 percent. Drugmakers also slumped. Eli Lilly & Co. decreased 12 percent to $29.38. Pfizer Inc. slipped 10 percent to $12.31.

Federal Budget

Obama’s budget, released Feb. 26, calls for paring subsidies to insurance companies participating in the government’s Medicare health-care system by $170 billion. The proposed budget would also raise rebates that drugmakers must provide for patients on Medicaid, the nation’s health plan for the poor, to 22 percent of the manufacturer’s price from 15 percent. Lilly and AstraZeneca Plc said they would lose “several hundred million” dollars each in sales.
Read about it click here

Obama healthcare plan isn’t looking so good by this report. Obama is making the crisis worst with all his hot air talk. 4 years sure is along time voters so we better join the Tea Parties and fight back for our rights unless you want a socialist country.

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38 comments on “An interview with John Goodman on the future of health care …Europe socialist governments provide “free” universal health care for everyone.

  1. I praise European-style universal healthcare because I have experienced both systems and it is better. You mention two things, life expectancy and cancer outcome, but there are many other aspects of different health systems that have been measured as well. Would you say deaths that could have been prevented by access to timely and effective healthcare was a good measure?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN07651650

    “In establishing their rankings, the researchers considered deaths before age 75 from numerous causes, including heart disease, stroke, certain cancers, diabetes, certain bacterial infections and complications of common surgical procedures.

    Such deaths accounted for 23 percent of overall deaths in men and 32 percent of deaths in women, the researchers said.”

    If you don’t consider it a good measurement, why not?

    Goodtimepolitics:You asked: Would you say deaths that could have been prevented by access to timely and effective healthcare was a good measure?
    Your UK Healthcare at work:
    I think that having to wait for treatment is terriable and would be the worst kind of healthcare we could have. Socialist healthcare will cost working people more money than our system does now and the working people would have to pay for the dead beats healthcare.

    Hospital Waiting Times and Waiting Lists
    This section contains information on the waiting times of patients and waiting lists collected from English PCTs on a responsible population basis, and also from NHS Trusts on a provider basis.

    Included are both commissioner based and provider based data collections:
    • Hospital outpatient waiting times for 1st outpatient appointments following GP referral.
    • Hospital inpatient waiting list information on patients who are waiting to be admitted for treatment.
    Click for more: Hospital waiting times and list statistics

    The Cancer Plan states that the government believes the ultimate goal should be to “offer patients a maximum one month wait from an urgent referral for suspected cancer to the beginning of treatment. Read This: Cancer Waiting Times

    Goodtimepolitics: Take note were the above Cancer waiting time before treatment begins it says “the government believes” I don’t think the american people wants the government making those kinds of health decisions.

  2. So you refuse to answer my question of whether you consider prevention of unnecessary deaths a good measure of medical system quality.

    The wait for care in the UK is no worse than in the US. For example, my neighbor had a hip replacement a month after his doctor prescribed it. Do you think those in the US who don’t have heath insurance don’t wait? Do you think those who put off treatment because they can’t afford it don’t wait? Meanwhile, I in the UK, am guaranteed to see my GP within 48 hours of asking for an appointment. If I am refered to a specialist, I am put on a list (without checking my insurer to get approval). The list is constantly revised with new urgent cases moving directly to the top of the list. We’ve been on such lists several times, and even on the totally non-urgent matters, we’ve never waited longer than two months.

    Those news stories are unrepresentative, and an example of how the UK system works. When things do go wrong, the news reports it and changes are made, with the decisions made by doctors and a citizen board, not by insurance companies. Is a profit-making company really who you want making such decisions? or do you prefer citizens and doctors, which are how those “government” decisions are made here.

  3. Again djcnor you don’t know what you’re talking about, there is no waiting in America for healthcare even when you don’t have a dine of money. We can go into a hospital at anytime of the day or night and get treatment. So you can keep your healthcare and we should keep the care we have thats is the best in the World!
    We don’t need the government telling us what treatments and how long we have to wait for care. Why do you suppose people come from Canada to America for many of their treatments? I will answer that for you..we don’t have a waiting list and we can buy insurance where as they are not allow to buy insurance in Canada! So no you do not know what you’re talking about. Why do you want America to have socialist healthcare like you do in the UK? Why do you care? We don’t want to be like you!

    And just to add alittle more…we don’t have to pay a fee to have a TV in the home, how much is that TV fee djcnor? And from what I have been told your prices for everything is much higher than ours. How much are you paying for a gallon of gas today djcnor? No we don’t want your type government!

  4. I do know what I’m talking about. I’m an American who has lived 7 of my 40 years since high school in Europe under socialized medicine. So I’ve experienced more American medican than Euro-medicine. I do know which is better.

    And people who don’t have insurance or the money put off treatment in America to the point that when they arrive at the emergency room, their treatment is much more expensive than it would be done early at the doctor’s office, and that costs you.

    I suppose a few people come from Canada or the UK because they want to jump the line, and with basic healthcare well taken care of, all they need to be able to afford is catastrophic health insurance, which is a lot cheaper here than in the US because it has to cover so little.

    I care because my visa may eventually run out and I may be forced to go back to the US at an age when I am likely to need more medical care rather than less, and I don’t want my care to be less and more expensive.

    As for the TV license, have you had the opportunity to contrast the quality of US TV, particularly news, with Brit TV. The contrast should be embarrassing to all Americans. When your news comes from for-profit organizations, it is anything but balanced and is so US centered that Americans constantly embarrass themselves when asked questions about the greater world.

    And actually, it’s almost nothing in cost. Much less than your cable costs.

  5. By the way, are you talking from a perspective of experience of both kinds of medical care? I bet not. Who doesn’t know what they’re talking about?

  6. Oh yes the BBC News is owned by the government and you know it by the news and how its reported! So you might have to come back here and you want free healthcare with the working Americans having to pay for it with their hard earned tax money. Figures! From what people from over there tell me you have to pay a TV fee if you have a TV in your home where its hooked up or not! Plus waiting for treatment of cancer is deadly because the sooner you get treatment the better chance of getting well. Since you love that socalist so much you need to stay where its at. Most Americans don’t even like HMOs because they don’t have a choice of doctors, so they sure will not like the government running the healthcare telling them what doctor and what treatments they can have. We still have a few freedoms, such as what doctor, what healthcare and owning our guns and we want to keep them!
    Thats the American way, not the European way!

  7. No, I want better healthcare than I would get in the US, care comparable to what I’m getting in the UK, and I’ve paid my taxes all my life. Perhaps you’re not aware that even ex-pats pay US taxes, so since I’m not getting any benefit of US taxes, I’m subsidizing you!

    The BBC is extremely independent, as you would know if you had seen the coverage during the last Brit election. It was amazing. The election season here is only 6 weeks long. Each day, they take a single issue and cover it with a microscope. They do not accept prevarication from any politician, and the opposition parties have to have “shadow” officials who have to state what they would have done on each and every issue day by day, so when the election comes, they have a record, too. The BBC is the most reputable TV news organization in the world.

    Again, you’re talking aobut something you have no knowledge or experience of.

    You never answered my question of whether you had ever actually experienced living with a universal healthcare system. I wonder why.

  8. The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care

    David Gratzer wrote: My health-care prejudices crumbled not in the classroom but on the way to one. On a subzero Winnipeg morning in 1997, I cut across the hospital emergency room to shave a few minutes off my frigid commute. Swinging open the door, I stepped into a nightmare: the ER overflowed with elderly people on stretchers, waiting for admission. Some, it turned out, had waited five days. The air stank with sweat and urine. Right then, I began to reconsider everything that I thought I knew about Canadian health care. I soon discovered that the problems went well beyond overcrowded ERs. Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when the standard of care was four weeks.
    Read More of what David Gratzer said

    Goodtimepolitics: Yes I will agree that our healthcare insurance is expensive but we have the freedom to chose what insurance we want to pay for and the right to have insurance. As far as people that can not afford to buy insurance they still have the government socialist welfare healthcare, so why should I have to take the same path as they do as long as I can afford my own insurance? Even the illegals in this country gets free healthcare. Maybe if we stop giving free healthcare to the millions of illegals our healthcare would be cheaper and affordable for more Americans!

  9. UK Cancer waiting time target on track

    The original time limit was put in place nine years ago and says that 95% of patients should start their treatment within two months of referral. This target was meant to be reached by 2005.
    The figures from July to September in 2008 showed that 94.6% of patients received treatment within the target time.

    Of the 14 NHS boards in Scotland, nine reached this target for July to September 2008. The highest scoring major board was NHS Lothian, which saw 98.1% of patients start their treatment within 62 days.
    Health Secretary Nicola Sturgeon said: “It is very welcome to see that the majority of patients diagnosed with cancer, who were urgently referred, are rightly starting their treatment within two months.”
    Read more about the wait

    Goodtimepolitics: American Cancer patients never have to wait for treatment here because its very important to start the treatment as quick as possiable to have a better chance of being cured.
    Many cancer patients would die before getting any treatment if they had to wait 60 days. You’re crazy to support that type of socialist healthcare djcnor!

  10. And still, you’ve never experienced it, have you? Believe me, many an American older person has stayed at home days in pain for days because they fear the cost of what might be wrong with them. You have no idea what a difference it makes not to fear the hole a medical problem will put in your budget, not even to fear the cost of a prescription. I don’t know the Canadian system, but we’ve had several hospital visits in our five years in the UK. One was an emergency that meant a week’s stay followed by a month of daily HOME visits slowly tapering over several more months to once a month and several continuing prescriptions. Total budget hit: $60 for three months of prescriptions, no matter how many, no matter for what. Hospital and home visits, $0.00. The treatment was great.

    Our other visits have been shorter, but still, no problems at all, and no cost at all.

    We know how those waiting lists work. You don’t. They are continually revised and the more urgent cases moved up. A very urgent case will go straight to the top on the first review. When you’re first told you’re going on a list, you’re told the total length of the list, but if your case is urgent, you move up the list fast and end up spending nowhere near that time on it.

    You may “choose” what you can afford in the way of care, but for a whole lot of Americans, that’s not really a choice at all. And no, only poor people in Massachusetts have a government program to rely on, and the ones that do exist for children are miserable compared to what poor people of other first world nations have, and that’s shameful. It is pure myth that illegals in the US get free healthcare.

    Two months is the extreme! Urgent cases begin their treatment within a week of diagnosis in the UK.

  11. No you don’t get it djcnor the healthcare treatment here or in the UK is NOT FREE as you say. The working people have to pay for your medical treatment in the UK in the form of more taxes…yes you would say its free!

    Why should we that work pay for your medical treatment? I don’t like paying for dead beats and like I said we have a socialist healthcare called welfare for those dead beats and the have nots!

    And for your information, the Canadian healthcare system is a government ran one just like the UK government ran healthcare! Both is socialist!

  12. Yes, I know how much workers pay for healthcare in the UK in taxes. I know because it’s taken out of my paycheck. And it’s a much much smaller piece than was taken out by US insurers when I worked there as I work here.

    Yes, both are socialist, Euro-style socialist, which is not at all the stereotype Americans have of socialism. Read my blog posts on Denmark to see what kinds of effects Euro-style socialism has. Even Forbes says Denmark has the best business climate in the world DESPITE the fact that taxes there are twice what they are in the US. What do you suppose makes up for that?

  13. djcnor:Yes, both are socialist, Euro-style socialist

    You just posted above that you didn’t know what type healthcare Canadians had!
    Oh well another Obama saying things which suit your cause and then changing it 5 minutes later! Have a good day djcnor! Hope you enjoy your waitng for healthcare treatment in theUK and hope to God you don’t get cancer and have to wait 60 days or longer for treatment!

  14. djcnor-
    I had knee surgery in the Military, and I injured it in Sept of 99. I didn’t have my surgery until Jan 00. The reason? As with all health care that is “free” they go the cheapest route possible. First, therapy, which lasted almost 3 months and included ice, and heat, stretching, excercises, braces, then they did that electrode thing where they shocked my muscles, all free of charge. After they realized I wasn’t getting better, they finally opted for an MRI and found that my ligaments in my knee had been completely torn, which is why my pain was completely gone. As soon as they found that out I was able to schedule my surgery. I had the option to have my surgery 2 days later. Which considering the extensive paperwork that needed to be done through the Navy was pretty darn good. I’m not sure if the healthcare plans would effect the military though. GTP?

  15. I would think that the military and VA would stay the way they are. We just don’t need socialist healthcare here and have the government telling us what treatments and when we can have them. Think about it, a cancer patent waiting 60 days before treatment when many of them die within 60 days or less. And why should we pay for dead beats to have healthcare, they can use the socialist welfare system of healthcare and its free for the dead beat and we the working people still have to pay for them!

  16. Interesting that you refuse to post my comments that have information that proves my points are valid. I will be writing a blog about this mentioning this blog in particular as one that turns away relevant content that contradicts its viewpoint. It’s allowed, just not nice.

  17. By the way, if you want to see how the government runs things check out my last post about Marine one helecopter! LOL

  18. By the way, that post included information showing that waiting times in the US were longer than those in Canada and that Canada had overall better healthcare than the US.

  19. djcnor if you had more than one url in your comment it goes into spam and I don’t even look at it before its gone! Plus you keep wanting to tell me that I don’t know what I’m talking about and I’m in the hospital about three time a year plus I have friends in Canada that has told me what socialist healthcare is like. I had a friend that his wife died before she could get treatment up in Canada. She was having real bad headaches and they put her on a waiting list and the headaches was a sign of something else wrong, a blood clog in the brain! So like I said you are barking up the wrong tree trying to tell me that socialist healthcare is so great. Forget it!

  20. djcnor-
    What I got from the posts between you and GTP, was that you were staing the same thing but in several different ways. That gets boring. Add links to your post, validate it that way. You can’t just say the wait times in Canada are shorter than the US and not back it up. Come with evidence, not just opinion.
    GTP-I did see the chopper story. Burns my biscuits! HMX-1 has 53’s, my helos.

  21. There is no waiting time in the United States of America..where are you coming up with your non-sense! I go to the hospital at least 3 times a year and amitted, sometimes in the middle of the night. There is no waiting time here!

  22. I also will add for djcnor, that this isn’t a blog for campaigning for Obama’s socialist agenda! Maybe MSNBC has a blog that would be better suited for your cause!

  23. Yes, only the Rush and Sean Fan Club need post here. No sense in having diversity of opinion.

  24. Its not a Obama loving site larrys, so if you’re looking for such a site move on over to the something hot running up legs for Obama MSNBC!

    I feel hurt that you left out goodtimepolitics out of the list with Sean and Rush!

  25. larrys-
    you know what they say about opinions right?
    GTP is right, if you don’t like it go back to your kool-aid stand. You won’t convince any of us to follow you “messiah” so give it up.

  26. OK. That does it. Now I’m writing my blog about your unwillingness to even accept my references proving my points. You can shut your blog off to opposing points of view, but that doesn’t make your arguments any stronger.

    goodtimepolitics: What a laugh! You have a socialist happy European day djcnor and push your agenda for socialist healthcare over there!
    Make My Day

  27. Pingback: GoodTimePolitics Is a Coward « Djcnor’s Weblog

  28. If goodtimepolitics never hears a discouraging word, then it means (to him) he must be right.

    WAY right.

  29. Oh, give me a home where the buffalo roam
    Where the deer and the antelope play
    Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
    And the skies are not cloudy all day
    Home, home on the range

  30. Actually no, I had to look them up. Not exactly my favorite song, pretty boring actually. I’m not from Kansas, and I didn’t read Dr. Brewster Higley.

  31. Seem that I was right about where djcnor was coming from with her comments! Here is a couple of comments from his page and you can see for your self! Hey larrys you would fit right in over there, and be welcome by djcnor, she would sure be happy to have you I bet!

    1 | Steve Work
    December 15th, 2008 at 1:51 am

    I was unhappy that the shoes did not find their mark on Bush’s
    retarted face. He has turned Iraq into a Hell-Hole. Let’s hope Air Force One has engine proplems and King George has to bail out over Falluja and be done by a Falluga lynch-mob, or perhaps take him to the local jail and reenact the atrocities that have been inflicted on the locals by Iraqi quislings. How
    many un-american creeps will be pardoned on Jan.19,2008 We
    need to storm the Bastille next month and sharpen the guiillitine blades. Runsfeldt should be tossed out of a helicopter
    flying as high a it will fly, then pilots who have won a lottory should be able a straff his body as it drifts to Earth. Or maybe just Life in Prison may be worse for the scumbags. Visitors to this scumbag zoo could scream at the miscreats, and throw excrement and urine at them.

    2 | djcnor
    December 15th, 2008 at 10:29 am

    Me, too, although I have no desire for Bush to face a lynch mob. The experience that I would like to give him is living in the conditions he has caused such a large proportion of the world’s people to live in for the rest of his life. If, by some miraculous occurrence, he actually managed ot achieve a level of empathy and appreciation of his guilt, I would be even happier. Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen. In the meanwhile, I am delighted that the world’s disgust has been expressed in a gesture more powerful than words in most of the world.

    And one of her post!

    Gender Diversity and Decisions
    The gist of the story is that homogeneous groups, such as the groups of old white upper-class men we’ve had making decisions (they point out Wall Street in particular) make bad decisions. In fact, in groups, women and men have very distinct styles of decision making.
    http://djcnor.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/gender-diversity-and-decisions/

  32. No gov’t health insurance
    “Ultimately, we would be left with a single government-run program controlling all of the market. This would take health care decisions out of doctors and patients and place them in the hands of another Washington bureaucracy.”
    Click to read more

  33. Pingback: Life prolonging cancer drugs to be banned because they cost too much.(Socialized Healthcare) « Goodtimepolitics

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